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Post by Andre on Jan 5, 2011 11:12:54 GMT -5
(casdegere says ) Game Tactics:
I understand bogging everything down with game rules can get cumbersome and take away from the fun factor of the game for the players and the GM. However, considering how rare magic appears to be in this particular campaign I think it might bring a new element if some of the original rules were put in place when it comes to spell casting. Examples:
As a caster: Declaring casting defensively before making the casting attempt when foes are nearby the caster. Forgetting to do this can come with dire consequences as I feel it should. I do not wish to see our casters injured but if I fighter forgot to draw his sword, he might find himself in trouble also.
Making the appropriate Concentration checks when damage has been sustained.
Eshew Materials is a very handy feat but also a costly one due to the fact that casters do not get alot of feats. However, materials need to be obtained and being in a magic lite environment should make finding these materials extremely difficult and expensive.
Magic is extremely powerful as Rin showed Azcot. Azcot did not like being helpless to a simple, effortless suggestion. If such power is to be wielded, it should come at a cost and difficulty.
Being a fighter means being very susteptable to spells. Though Azcot is formidable in combat he pays for this by putting himself in harms way by standing toe to toe with the enemy. Weapons and Armor can be taken from him or lost...
Party Business and RP hooks
The party is somewhat disconnected I think. No one seems to appreciate what the other does to keep everyone alive. We approach a fight, get through it and we continue on as if it were just part of the day. No one is really held accountable for their attitude or actions. Azcot has not been a very amicable individual I think but no one really has called him on it. He has done some pretty odd things and he also seems to get a little more aggitated with Za'era and Eolaer shmooze like they do. Why is that?
I don't think a single kind word has been passed between Azcot and Eolaer.
Rin does do things to help out the party but his followers have annoyed people to the point that they find fault in everything Rin says or does. Rin defended his friend but did not resolve the issue.
Sangrias has got something going on that could affect everyone down the road but not alot has been said or done about it since it all came up. He tries to hide himself away and everyone kind of lets him. Is he hiding something?
Za'era appears to try and be the calm hand of the group. Even putting her body in harms way to defend an Elf or calm a rampaging creature.
Serinda appears to be dealing with the perversion of her mothers death fairly well or is she really?
The Harvester got in everyones face and threw down personal information for all to see. That has been barely discussed.
I guess what I would like to see is more argueing, more discussing of these issues. The more we know and understand about each other the more closer a group becomes.
In a more realistic look at it. We have faught together, broke bread together we should be willing to help each other with these issues. Confront each other with their short-comings to get them resolved before going into combat again. This kind of thing. I might nto be writing it well but can anyone get where I am coming from at all or am I off base?
(darkalloy says ) Kind of a mix of off base and get where you're coming from. We really need to get a thread up and running one that... well random people don't just walk out of for some reason that also happens to be away from Sunstar and Raven.... Can't get Tani away... Pesky familiars and the hobgobbo's have disappeared. Anyway maybe we have Rin suggest everyone to sit and talk out issu..... No that wouldn't work partly because after Rin would be tarred, de-feathered, gutted, filleted, and cooked. Not necessarily in that order either. Hmm... Someone want to start such a thing up I have no idea where to go with it for the start point.
(casdegere says) Well there has yet to be a moment when we are all grouped up when we are not in combat. Usually two are over here, someone is over there and there and two are over here. We has a cleric and a Bard, two of the best diplomats in the game.
(darkalloy says ) And no one takes them seriously. Anyway I'm sure we could get everyone together for a little bit even if Rin has to sit there singing really annoying songs till everyone comes over and beats him. Then by happenstance decide to sit and chat. Wait that one may work, Rin will be a kenku feather rug for a bit but who cares!!!
(flak says ) While I [Flak] am all up for 'character buddy time', Sangrias isn't. He's pretty fixed on his personal space, and the familiars are testing his patience right now. Still, he's pretty reasonable after he's had his beauty rest.
(casdegere says ) Rin is not taken seriously because he does not speak of serious things very often.
Pull out the, "We need to discuss the Harvester," card and I am sure everyone's tone would change. There are things that could bring us together to discuss. My vote is to throw Sangrias's past into the fire for everyone to poke around with a stick. Azcot will hold him down, np.
Petty bickering is the sign of bigger, unresolved issues. Azcot may act out because he does not possess the communication skills to convey everything he is feeling.
The whole Hermaphrodite(sp?) thing is an eye opener. I wonder why Raven and Sun did not do a threesome with Rin.
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Post by Andre on Jan 5, 2011 11:13:08 GMT -5
Casdegere beat me to this I was typing up a great big long post here and I see he posted before me, well done ! But I've moved this to a different thread just because I feel it warrants a thread of it's own Ok after listening to the skype conversation (Flak/Sangrias this took place after you logged off since you had to get up early for work I think ) between darkalloy (Rin the bird man) and casdegere (Azcot the Red) I thought I should clarify a few things... - the rope thing... I can see why the PC's would assume it was all Rin's doing and even if it's NOT Rin's doing get pissed at him about it, in-character .... while this would be out of character knowledge for most of the PC's, if they think about it long enough Sangrias (or after just a moment's thought in Serinda's case.. that genius IQ helps a lot here ) it occurs to both mages that the rope thing is probably a manifestation of Rin's "dark side" , the kind of things Rin would do if he didn't have any morals.. trying to force Za'era to sleep with him, trying to kill anyone who pissed Rin off ... again bear in mind Rin DID try to stop it ... it's up to Serinda and Sangrias to decide if Rin is telling the truth or not about whether or not he is in fact in control of the rope-thing... however bear in mind in the last FG game session that Rin was trying to restrain the rope-thing and getting it to calm down.. it's blatantly obvious to both Sangrias and Serinda that Rin's magic is definitely a different sort than any known magic on Krynn at this point in time .... though both Sangrias and Serinda (and Rin for that matter) would know that thousands of years ago history says the magic of chaos could be tapped spontaneously , allowing magic to be wielded without the study of spellbooks... people were simply born able to cast (arcane) spells without studying the Art first ... according to the history books the result was a magical war that nearly tore Krynn apart until the gods of magic.. represented by the moons Solinari (patron of the White robes and good aligned magic), Lunitari (patron of the Red robes and neutral aligned magic) and Nuitari (patron of the Black Robes and evil aligned magic) brought all the chaos-mages up from the world of Krynn and set down guidelines on how magic was to be used, restricting the chaos-mages in such a way that they would now have to study and be taught the Art rather than being able to use it at will and advising them that the fabric of reality was not to be tampered with.. thus were the Towers of High Sorcery created.. Sangrias and Serinda's respective magical tutors (Catrain and ) have advised their pupils that their tutors are of the opinion that the history books did not lie... Rin's magical tutor however isn't sure if he believes it one way or the other... So yep poor Rin is being blamed for something that is not his fault (player knowledge if not necessarily in-character knowledge ) .. basically Rin is the first wielder of chaos-magic (sorcerer or bard type magic basically) to walk the face of Krynn for thousands of years... holes are slowly being torn in the fabric of reality as a result.. or as darkalloy likes to put it, " Rin is always in trouble" ... - the barbarians Sunstar and Raven-eye ... bear in mind Azcot that when you first encountered Sunstar (the female barbarian who Rin has a "thing" going on with) in the ruins of Xak Tsaroth.. shortly before fighting the black dragon Onyx... Azcot was very suspicious of her as was Sangrias .. and not saying you shouldn't be either, as the DM it's not up to me to dictate how PC's react to a given situation ! But also bear in mind that given her tribe was slaughtered for the most part and Azcot has been rather.. insensitive... about this (again not saying Azcot shouldn't be, he's RP'ing his draconic arrogance here ) she's pissed at him... also bear in mind Azcot blocked the group of other PC's from going past him in the hallway while Sunstar was pleading (in the ruins of Xak Tsaroth) to go by him so she could rescue her brother, no doubt being tortured and what not (from her point of view) ..he still didn't let Sunstar go by .. again not saying what Azcot should or should not do but you can imagine by now why Sunstar wouldn't like Azcot.. Rin on the other hand immediately promised to help Sunstar (in the ruins of Xak Tsaroth) as far as rescuing her brother, Raven-eye .. Rin even went so far as to say that he'd help rescue Raven-eye even if the other PC's refused to help.. THIS is a big part of why the barbarians have a case of hero-worship for Rin.. that and he's basically a big walking talking bird ... given the barbarian reverence for nature and given Rin's heroics (from their point of view) on the barbarian's behalf in the ruins of Xak Tsaroth.. so as far as casdegere's statement on skype that " Rin, the barbarians revere you for no reason that anyone can see, which irritates them (I'm assuming Azcot meant the other PC's ) , also, the rope beast and other creatures that know you by name " .. I hope this clears that up though I understand that casdegere could be simply explaining why Azcot the character is ticked off, not casdegere the player ... see also my comments on the rope-thing above.. though again I could see why Azcot would be pissed at Rin about it even if the player knows otherwise .. - Rin using the Suggestion spell to make people sit and so forth needs to be addressed too... Azcot would prefer that when Rin does this that it be declared in advance to give other PC's an opportunity to react and that spellcasters should declare if they're casting defensively first (more on casting defensively later).. to me this sounds like I should have all the PC's involved roll for initiative when this sort of thing crops up... I apologize for not doing that, it occurred to me that perhaps I should but I was hoping people would just "roll with it" without getting too upset and I didn't roll for init mainly to speed the FG game session along .. basically I think it boils down to people getting ticked off when a fellow player is telling their PC what to do .. Sangrias doesn't like Rin for that reason (though I'm sure the player doesn't hold a grudge, right Flak? ) and it's one source of tension between Azcot and Rin and, I think, the players darkalloy and casdegere as well ... in my case I go so far as to let a PC kick my PC's ass sometimes just because I think it's fun .. see this thread: whatifdragonlancedm.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=palace&action=display&thread=399&page=6In the Drow campaign where I decided that Enya'ra succeeded in strangling Chalzin (my PC ) into unconsciousness without so much as a single dice roll on Enya'ra's part .. I'm easygoing that way but my mistake was assuming all other players would be that way too.. personally I'd LOVE it if we could just smile and not take it so personally - perhaps casdegere could have Azcot get the drop on Rin , squeeze him into unconsciousness then drop the unconscious bird-man in a pile of horse manure for an unpleasant surprise when Rin wakes up ... but, for casdegere at least, I don't think that's going to happen if casdegere is warning of "consequences" (as per his skype chat) if Rin continues with the Suggestions.. which is fine, each player has their own style of gaming, so ... in the future initiative rolls ... however I'm unlikely to enforce the whole players having to declare they're casting defensively beforehand... I like to consider myself a somewhat nicer than average DM, some might say a bit soft ... my gaming style is such that I'm perfectly ok with a spellcaster declaring that they're casting defensively after the fact - I'd really rather not have the game devolve into "nitpicking" ( I see it as nitpicking anyways though I can see how other players and DM's might not) to the point where this sort of thing has to be declared in advance... as a matter of fact as a DM if it occurs to me I'd probably go so far as to advise spellcasters they can cast defensively if they so choose... does this give spellcasters an advantage? Probably. But I'd rather not embrace a style of DM'ing that I consider to be overly "harsh" for lack of a better word. And this IS my final decision on this matter I'm afraid as far as the casting defensively thing. Though I can definitely see why Casdegere might suggest that .. given that casdegere , darkalloy and flak/sangrias are more familiar with the rules than I am, when I keep asking for rules clarification as the DM I invite this sort of commentary from players.. so no hard feelings towards casdegere of course but I did want to make my point of view on casting defensively clear. While I see casdegere's point on mages being somewhat rare I'd really rather not get into a whole nitpicking thing over whether or not PC's have to keep tally of every single material focus, this will slow FG game sessions down even more than they are going already (my fault as a DM but I don't want to make a bad situation worse) ... likewise I'm not going to pounce on players and declare " You didn't draw your sword waste an action pulling it out this round ! " Yes I know the rules say this has to be declared ahead of time but, again, my feeling is that it unnecessarily slows down the game. Basically it comes down to who succeeds on the init roll first... if Azcot gets the drop on Rin and gets him in a choke hold it become VERY difficult for Rin to cast spells or do much of anything for example.. fighters can be potent too it just depends on the situation. Casdegere does raise an interesting point as far as the suggestion spell and what's considered "reasonable" as far as the suggested course of action.. the big problem here is that "reasonable" is such an elastic term. www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htmBasically it was casdegere's contention that having Azcot sit on his hands for six hours (the duration of the spell) would be considered an unreasonable request. Here's my take on it.. once you fail the saving throw for the spell there ARE going to be negative consequences for the victim, that's the reason for the saving throw in the first place. As long as it's not something that's obviously harmful to the target or causes the target to lose something precious or valuable (money, magic items et cetera ) I'm going to rule that if you fail that save you're inclined to follow the suggestion for a while.. however if it's not an extremely reasonable suggestion I'm not sure the victim would do something like sit on their hands for the entire six hours... I CAN however see the unfortunate victim stuck following a non-harmful suggestion for say at least 15 minutes .... furthermore if it's a suggestion tailor made to the PC's personality .. " Azcot you need to go train like you used to do in the arena so you're in top form in our next fight against hostile draconians .. go spar with Sangrias " and Azcot fails his save I can see poor Azcot doing that for six hours straight whether Sangrias wants to spar or not .. again the term "reasonable" is what makes this sticky but at some point the DM is going to be forced to make a call that other players might not agree with . Rin ... while as the DM it's not my job to tell people what you can and cannot do unless it's something that involves an alignment violation or not acting in a way that your god would want you to (in the case of clerics and favored souls for example) ... it would appear that the Suggestion spells are causing a certain amount of grief because certain players don't like their characters being forced to follow a certain course of action... while I personally speaking as a player would have no problem with Rin doing this to my PC were we in some campaign someone else was DM'ing, for the sake of party unity much as it pains me to even have to ask you to do this darkalloy ... might I suggest Rin avoid the suggestion effects and the like unless a PC attacks him , even if said attack is for non lethal damage.. if Azcot gets pissed and goes for a choke-hold (and I think we've established at this point Azcot will not do lethal damage to another PC ) obviously feel free to retaliate in a non-lethal fashion with whatever suggestion you feel best suits the situation... again this is NOT a DM requirement since I feel the situation has become blown out of proportion.. it is however a humble request solely to appease fellow players. casdegere/Azcot is correct about people RP'ing to the point where the group splits apart.. RP'ing your character's personality is great, I award RP points for this sort of thing ! But bear in mind group unity too. ... if you RP yourself into a corner where you feel you have no point but to leave the group that's a problem... if nothing else consider your common cause... the dragonarmies are going to take over Krynn and wipe out your loved ones if you don't stick together... but yes Azcot has raised some excellent RP points , stuff that needs to be addressed (though given Eolaer's absence from the forum boards I'm afraid it will continue to be a while before there's a kind word between Azcot and Eolaer .. apparently Eolaer/nydhog is still very busy with real life stuff ) ...
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Post by darkalloy on Jan 5, 2011 11:33:46 GMT -5
Rin can try to avoid the suggestion effects.... Granted his normal situation resolution goes a bit like this when he's not trying to kill something.(talk>bluff>suggestion>grease and run like hell> whimper as he is pummeled) He skipped steps 1 and 2 as Azcot did punch Rin earlier in the day and did just squeeze the hell out of Sunstar.
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Post by flak on Jan 5, 2011 11:34:32 GMT -5
Wow, long post. Digesting...
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Post by Andre on Jan 5, 2011 11:35:40 GMT -5
yeah my apologies long posts are my specialty
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Post by darkalloy on Jan 5, 2011 11:40:25 GMT -5
Hmm... Andre did you take the Text wall feat? I mean I took the disturbing mental image feat.
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Post by casdegere on Jan 5, 2011 11:57:45 GMT -5
I was just going to say that myself, The guy is a typing maniac!
Anywho I do not want Rin to stop using his abilities. However, its going to have re-percussions if the usage of the ability is not coupled with some kind of dialogue to put water onto the flames.
(Dark and I did some behind the scenes discussing)
Also it says alot to Azcot when he is made to be humiliated like that and no one stepped in to stop it.
Valuable RP moments are being passed up by "rushing through" situations like these. For right now while the party is on the edge of a knife, it might be prudent to slow down such interactions and allow everyone to partake if they choose to. Later on, when the major issues are over it will be easier to allow fellow PC's to blow off steam and trust them more to act accordingly.
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Post by flak on Jan 5, 2011 12:06:35 GMT -5
My take on everything:
- The rope thing - I didn't really understand what the hell the rope thing came from, but after the quick talk with Rin and Serinda [through Sangrias] I kinda figured out that Rin is either subconsciously or inadvertently making weird stuff happen. Sangrias kinda doesn't like it, but the hell are you gonna do about it? You got worse things to deal with than rope monsters.
- The barbarians - Putting Sangrias in their shoes [or mukluks, moccasins, etc], the barbarians are kind of getting the short end of the 'invasion of the world' stick. Draconians killing everyone, villages destroyed, life generally sucks, and now they cling onto the only hope they have: the heroes, and more specifically Rin. It wouldn't kill them to realize we're doing our fair share of world saving too, but eh. Azcot might not realize this, but then again it took me a while to see it that way.
- Suggestion - I can see why it's a bit like 'God-modding'. I [Flak] don't mind the suggestion spell, but Sangrias still holds a grudge. If the others are anything like him, it might be detrimental for the party when Rin burns all his friend bridges and looks to the others for help. "Help, I'm gonna die from snoo-snoo! Totally awesome way to go, but I'm too young!" "What's that? I 'suggest' you get some lube! Hahaha!"
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Post by solardawn on Jan 5, 2011 12:11:07 GMT -5
There's a lot going on and a lot being discussed, but I'll try to respond to some things in order. Defensive Casting: It doesn't really bother me because I usually don't forget to use it. I'm generally paying attention to whether or not I should take a 5 ft step or I should do defensive casting. Hasn't been required yet. Eschew materials is awesome, and truthfully in this campaign it's not that expensive, I got it for 100 roleplaying points Though I fully admit I've never really been one to focus too much on the gathering of material components that are simple things, not even as a GM. I don't think nothing at all is being resolved, at least not from my characters point of view. In the very beginning there was the big deal with Za'era which resolved some issues between them and she agreed to give Za'era a chance. More recently she had a bit of a discussion with Sangrias about himself and the darkness around him. Obviously it didn't instantly change his ways or anything, but at least I think they grew to a closer understanding of eachother. She also had a conversation with Azcot after his fight with Sangrias where she tried to give him some support and tell him she appreciates his efforts at least. Was him that walked off I mean I'm certain there's more that can be done, and I'm absolutely not opposed to that, more RP opportunity is always good, I'm merely saying it hasn't felt to me that nothing is happening. As for Rin, well Serinda is unlikely to be his best buddy instantly, she's a rather humorless one, and Rin is a prankster. She thinks of magic as the most significant and most potent force in the world, and he wields it too casually. And she's also thinks very poorly of Rin agreeing to let him be perceived as some kind of spirit in other to get some idiot child girl (Which is how she sees sunstar) to sleep with him, which to her seems like deception and dishonorable conduct. That said, I don't have a problem with Rin whatsoever, I don't think he needs to be more badass or changed really, the only suggestion I might have made is to use 'suggestion' the spell upon one of the enemy dragonlings instead of on the group We could have had a draconian to interrogate and extract information from, but I didn't think about that myself until today, so I can't really blame Rin for not doing so either Serinda isn't entirely sure who the harvester is for that matter, so discussing him may be prudent. The rope thing is complicated for Serinda, she understands that Rin didn't purposefully summon the creature, that was never the issue. But she does feel it's a direct side effect of his irresponsible use of magic. If he would just use it properly. (Read: Conform to her standards) it would never have happened, no fiendish rope monsters is out performing her subconscious desires. To her there's good reason 'chaos-magic' was bound the way it was, it nearly ended the world. And now she sees this as clear proof. It was never a case of thinking Rin doing it on purpose, but by neglect. The barbarian girl is just exactly the kind of human that Serinda can't stand, young, opinionated and liberal. Two of those traits Serinda shares herself, she's also young, she's also extremely opinionated, and so it's only natural they should clash. And while Sunstar is completely comfortable talking about sex openly, Serinda can't even admit those kind of feelings to herself, let alone to the outside world. The suggestion thing, it doesn't really bother me, because I can't see darkalloy abusing it, think he's a good guy and I just can't believe he'd do that. But i can understand some degree of annoyance too. Especially when the chance of resisting it is so low for Azcot. At some point it might start to feel like your character can't do anything, because he always ends up being mindraped. So I can understand some apprehension, loosing control of your character is a very helpless thing, if it happens once or twice, it doesn't matter, D&D life is tough, but if it happens a lot, and you can't do anything to prevent it from happening again. That's a tough pill to swallow I think.
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Post by solardawn on Jan 5, 2011 12:18:29 GMT -5
Also, I was actually still considering using her dispel magic scroll to free Azcot. She didn't exactly agree with Azcot squeezing the girl into unconsciousness, even if the silence is nice, it's not something she can agree to, so a time out might not be bad, but she also doesn't agree with Azcot being tricked by magic, going so far as to no longer going to memorize mind controlling spells herself, at least for now. However, her scroll is really valuable, so she wanted to see if he was gonna snap out of it within a few minutes, then if not, free him with the scroll, or try to anyway.
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Post by darkalloy on Jan 5, 2011 12:25:35 GMT -5
Hehe... Rin doesn't suggest people all that often, generally he doesn't have any spells left for it. This would be I think the 5th time he's used it in a game session 2nd time it's actually worked correct me if I'm wrong. As for interrogating the Draconian's well we haven't needed to use any spell's to do it. I mean most of the time the enemy is scared to the point of blubbering and just spills their guts with little effort on our part. As for Eschew Mats. I generally take it unless the DM goes well if you have the pouch you are assumed to have the lesser mats... You know like the book's say. I had one DM who made every spell component cost 10 gp even if you went into a field to pick up cow flop yourself it was 10gp to pick it up. Anyway off topic there for a sec. I will tone Rin's bardic-ness down a bit.
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Post by casdegere on Jan 5, 2011 12:34:01 GMT -5
Omg, I had water going up my nose when I read this. TO funny Flak!
As I said in another post, I do not mind Rin using his abilities on Azcot. Azcot had it coming but such things can have dire consequences that have to be dealt with. I do not think its reasonable to completely "mindrape" someone then walk away without fear of reprisal. I as a player do not want to break up the group either over something so trivial. The other option is that when such power is used against a player, the game needs to slow down a little in order to resolve the moment of contention. Such integral conflicts should be important to everyone in the group. Everyone's lives depends on each other and so much is at stake. I'm not sure if rolling with it is always going to be in character. Definately not for Azcot.
Azcot is not very wise. he does not "see" everything there is to see in a given situation. I, the player may remember more details of what is going on but Azcot does not always. He might need more guidance then he has been offered. He reacts quickly and agressively. By now this is not a mystery methinks. Sun was dishonoring him and others in the party. He reacted in a way that lowered himself but he was so angry he didnt care.
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Post by madelaine on Jan 5, 2011 12:34:35 GMT -5
The suggestion thing, it doesn't really bother me, because I can't see darkalloy abusing it, think he's a good guy and I just can't believe he'd do that. But i can understand some degree of annoyance too. Especially when the chance of resisting it is so low for Azcot. At some point it might start to feel like your character can't do anything, because he always ends up being mindraped. So I can understand some apprehension, loosing control of your character is a very helpless thing, if it happens once or twice, it doesn't matter, D&D life is tough, but if it happens a lot, and you can't do anything to prevent it from happening again. That's a tough pill to swallow I think. On the other side I have to say that Rin would barely have a chance to defend himself physically against Azcots grapples or attacks as well. I think if you play a character that is based on their mind you should expect to loose against a gladiator in hand to hand combat and not even have much chance. Also you should expect to loose a mind combat to a character specialized to mind attacks if you play a brute force character. I think it is not fair to demand one way but deny the other ways or limit them. On the other side I am always a friend of "chances". It cant be that Azcot attacks Rin in a physical way and Rin just says a single word and by this auto-wins. I think THERE has to be done some balance. I am not a big friend of auto-win chars. We all optimize our chars more or less but it should never end into total domination over other characters.
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Post by solardawn on Jan 5, 2011 12:40:18 GMT -5
The suggestion thing, it doesn't really bother me, because I can't see darkalloy abusing it, think he's a good guy and I just can't believe he'd do that. But i can understand some degree of annoyance too. Especially when the chance of resisting it is so low for Azcot. At some point it might start to feel like your character can't do anything, because he always ends up being mindraped. So I can understand some apprehension, loosing control of your character is a very helpless thing, if it happens once or twice, it doesn't matter, D&D life is tough, but if it happens a lot, and you can't do anything to prevent it from happening again. That's a tough pill to swallow I think. On the other side I have to say that Rin would barely have a chance to defend himself physically against Azcots grapples or attacks as well. I think if you play a character that is based on their mind you should expect to loose against a gladiator in hand to hand combat and not even have much chance. Also you should expect to loose a mind combat to a character specialized to mind attacks if you play a brute force character. I think it is not fair to demand one way but deny the other ways or limit them. On the other side I am always a friend of "chances". It cant be that Azcot attacks Rin in a physical way and Rin just says a single word and by this auto-wins. I think THERE has to be done some balance. I am not a big friend of auto-win chars. We all optimize our chars more or less but it should never end into total domination over other characters. That's very true, but my comment applies to that situation too, if Rin was constantly being grappled by Azcot and ends up unable to scratch his own ass because he's always being held down, I think that would become annoying too. In the end, I just think moderation is an important thing when it comes to using your abilities against other characters. I don't think Rin has gone too crazy with it, mostly I think it just happened to happen twice yesterday so it 'seemed' like a lot. But since it is being discussed that's my view on it. Abilities being used is alright, but do so in moderation.
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Post by casdegere on Jan 5, 2011 12:47:40 GMT -5
Its not really the same.
Every round in combat is a win or lose, hit or miss for a fighter. It took alot to make Azcot so formidable at doing one thing.
Suggestion is a one shot defeat where defeat is very likely when used by the right person. One ability among several in Rin's arsenal. In all earnest Rin is the more viable character however,
Its not about who can defeat who, its about respect. Azcot won in the arena and so he was showed respect. He is not used to being disrespected and tricked or talked down to by some barbarian woman. Azcot will not be brought into tow by such debauchery. Arguements were decided by winning in combat. TO trick him and think you've won is not exactly going to fly...unless he likes you enough to just...let it go.
(the whole punch for the oil of the roof thing was a players mistake thinking Rin did use oil on the roof.)
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