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Post by malkav565 on Aug 6, 2010 5:33:24 GMT -5
"Well, free Toede or not, we shouldn't bring him back to Solace, as this will tip off the Seekers or any of Verminaard's spies. I leave the final decision to you youngsters."
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Post by darkalloy on Aug 6, 2010 5:59:37 GMT -5
Still lying on the ground Rin shifts his gaze to Adam. "Ehh just let him go. I think he'll be to scared of both us the testicle whip and his masters to tell anyone anything. Besides I get to tempted to play horrible pranks if we kept him around."
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Post by mikker0 on Aug 6, 2010 6:51:41 GMT -5
Remind me to be captured by this group if I ever go on a murdering rampage...
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 8:12:29 GMT -5
Rin does fall over as he starts to laugh. "I... I was gonna ask what you planed to do. Let your dog there give them some grass." Still on the ground he lies back and stares at the sky. "Yeah and while they were laughing at nothing you'd kill them all. Right before the smoke got to you and you were sitting there with them going. "' I was gonna kill you, but... ehhh fuck it. I'm not gonna."' That would be the best battle plan ever." ((Yes Rin sounded like a stoned Nine.))
(lol) ... I was hoping someone would pick up on the stoned dog   |
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 8:27:42 GMT -5
Remind me to be captured by this group if I ever go on a murdering rampage...  .... and for the other players who respond to these posts too ...
I'm going to assume mikker0's comment was ooc rather than in character.. which is fine, but I'd prefer it appear in italics like thisRemind me to be captured by this group if I ever go on a murdering rampage...or you can do what other players have been doing and put ooc before it , that works fine too(ooc: Remind me to be captured by this group if I ever go on a murdering rampage...) But please do SOMETHING to let me know it's an OOC comment so I know 100 percent
Mikker0 you can feel free to protest, free speech is your constitutional right ..... and from an in-character standpoint I can see how just letting Toede go might be repugnant ... having said that I have to admit I'm rather worried at this point... nydhog is the only other player I've heard concerns from on the morality issue and he and I have worked those issues out, leaving you as my only "worry factor" so to speak  .... you mentioned you were going to stay in the campaign - great ... but I just want to make sure you know that there are going to be what you probably consider to be "strict" morality issues for good aligned PC's... so far they boil down to the following
1) do not maim or kill helpless opponents, prisoners or otherwise (again DM's promise, this does not come back to haunt you in the future)
2) sub-point to 1 that hasn't come up yet but figured I better bring it up now... if a hypnotized good guy or innocent bystander is forced to come after the PC's do subdual damage or a non-lethal spell if possible ... if it's a zero level peasant even a 5th level wizard could defeat with one hand tied behind her back I don't expect lethal damage, if it's a genuine threat (ogre for example) and you have no way to defend yourself other than lethal hit 'em with lethal albeit reluctantly
3) expressing reluctance to put yourself in danger's way is fine it's a very "Han Solo" sort of thing to do and is good RP'ing ... but at the end of the day if there's even a chance a group of innocents are going to suffer you jump in and rescue them solely because it's the "right thing to do " (basically the good aligned PC's are expected to act as "Heroes" in the classical sense of the word)
To me a paladin does all of that PLUS does the whole " I will obey the letter to the law and never break my promises " thing.. unlike a paladin, a chaotic good character can feel free to lie , break the law , steal (long as he doesn't knowingly and willingly steal something an innocent may need to survive later on ... stealing a sword from some poor non-evil slob who's going to need it to survive as the dragonarmies advance for example is not cool .. stealing gold from an NPC merchant on the other hand is fair game) ...
Your concerns that you don't feel like you're free to RP are valid of course, you are the Reika expert far more than me on how she would react to a given situation... given your continued protests over the whole morality thing however I find myself REALLY concerned about 1) you and I wasting campaign time arguing about this in the future, time I could be spending writing up fun sub-plots for the PC's instead and/or 2) you dropping out of the campaign and all the Reika subplots I'm working on going to waste. You did say in an e-mail you sent to me that you were not particularly happy about it but not so opposed to it that you will up and leave , you consider it to be just one aspect of the game... so I will cross my fingers and hope it doesn't become a problem in the future.
For all the other players... the reason I'm putting it out here in public is so everyone stays informed on what my expectations are in the campaign.. if someone feels this is not the gaming style they like that's fine but I need to know NOW before the PC goes any further in the campaign.
Morality is a VERY murky thing.... players and DM's could argue forever about the fine points of it and never come to a resolution.. for the purposes of this campaign however , in order for it to work, I need HEROES that meet the criteria described above ... |
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 9:18:59 GMT -5
(apologies I should have put this up ages ago.. here's a pic of the charming person you are interrogating .. my apologies for not being able to crop this to get rid of the words, kids are keeping me busy 'till school starts for them ) 
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Post by nydhog on Aug 6, 2010 9:28:36 GMT -5
(ooc: I can see where Reika is coming from. She's not the heroic type. And remember: it's lawful good not lawful stupid. Morality is one thing, plunging into a war is another. Self preservation is not an evil act lol. If a group of innocents are going to suffer at the hands of a small group, I'd be hard pressed to find someone in this group who WOULDN'T immediately jump in. But a group of innocents risked by a full scale war.... I can understand the reservations)
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Post by nydhog on Aug 6, 2010 9:31:00 GMT -5
"If we let him go, we risk our selves and any chance of surprise"
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Post by lizzyopal on Aug 6, 2010 9:41:32 GMT -5
While the arguing continues for what seems like hours, Daemy desides what should be done. She draws her cross bows and points them secretly to the back of Toedes head. She fires both crossbows into Toede.
"Problem solved. Let us move on."
She stands behind him with a grin as she puts away her crossbows.
(Hide roll to sneak up: 16 + 10 = 26, Sleight of Hand to hide crossbows being drawn: 15 + 6 = 21)
Attack Rolls: 13 + 5 = 18, 19 (crit threat, not confirmed) + 5 = 24.
Damage: 1d8 + 2d6, 1d8 + 2d6
Total damage: FIRST ATTACK 8 damage + 4 sneak attack = 12damage, Second Attack: 8 damage + 7 sneak attack = 15 damage. 27 damage in total.
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Post by nydhog on Aug 6, 2010 9:42:36 GMT -5
(I logged in just to say I witnessed these rolls.)
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 14:33:23 GMT -5
sorry guys, I should have clarified this when I began the forum RP thing .... major events like this (one PC wants to kill an NPC other PC's want alive ) are something I'm not comfortable RP'ing over a forum thread... for a situation like this I would have everyone roll initiative in a "live" FG game session . Generally speaking as a rule of thumb talking with your fellow PC's is fine.. anything beyond that (unless I insert an "ad hoc" description of combat or something like that as a DM) needs to be handled during an FG game session.. if Daemy wants to she can certainly attempt to do this at the beginning of our next FG game session... I will however (Daemy) be sending you a PM on why this may not be the best idea...While the arguing continues for what seems like hours, Daemy desides what should be done. She draws her cross bows and points them secretly to the back of Toedes head. She fires both crossbows into Toede. "Problem solved. Let us move on." She stands behind him with a grin as she puts away her crossbows. (Hide roll to sneak up: 16 + 10 = 26, Sleight of Hand to hide crossbows being drawn: 15 + 6 = 21) Attack Rolls: 13 + 5 = 18, 19 (crit threat, not confirmed) + 5 = 24. Damage: 1d8 + 2d6, 1d8 + 2d6 Total damage: FIRST ATTACK 8 damage + 4 sneak attack = 12damage, Second Attack: 8 damage + 7 sneak attack = 15 damage. 27 damage in total.
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 14:45:56 GMT -5
(ooc: I can see where Reika is coming from. She's not the heroic type. And remember: it's lawful good not lawful stupid. Morality is one thing, plunging into a war is another. Self preservation is not an evil act lol. If a group of innocents are going to suffer at the hands of a small group, I'd be hard pressed to find someone in this group who WOULDN'T immediately jump in. But a group of innocents risked by a full scale war.... I can understand the reservations)
I have explained this many, MANY times folks and I'm beginning to get a bit sick and tired of having to argue with players about this repeatedly in the forums. While I'm normally not the kind of DM who likes to dictate how a PC acts, if you are not comfortable with the morality requirements... and so far despite their protests otherwise I get the feeling nydhog and mikker0 are quite uncomfortable with it... this isn't the campaign for you. Sorry to be so blunt but there it is.
When I ran a paladin in another game he tried to trick a foe into drinking holy water and lost his paladin powers for one day.. I could have chosen to argue with the DM endlessly about it ... instead I took what the DM said to heart and made sure it didn't happen again. Folks I am here to RUN A CAMPAIGN, not to argue the same things over and over with players. At some point you have to stop arguing with the DM every time things don't go your way or it becomes impossible for the DM to do his job... so here I am asking the same question for the millionth time - here is what I need of the PC's.. can you live with it?
rogueserpent, darkalloy and malkav565 no issues with you at all, you're fantastic players.. and please don't think I am going to be this "draconian" with any of you three... the reason I'm coming across dictator-like and hard-edged with the 3 other players is I've been arguing with two of them (mikker0 and nydhog) non stop about the morality thing (not only here on the forums but via e-mails and PM"s too) and it's getting old... rather than wasting time on them that could instead be spent on the players that are mature enough to embrace the definition of good I need for this campaign and go with it (you 3 guys), I'd prefer to focus on the players for whom this campaign is a good fit.
Believe me this is not normal behavior on my part.. I like to have the PC's have free will but the morality requirements are necessary for the campaign to work... rogueserpent (nine the elf ranger), dark alloy (rin the bird man ) and malkav (adam the half devil monk) have been great about that , the others.. not so much...
Right now mikker0, nydhog and lizzyopal are ticking time bombs that will go off at some point later on in the campaign and derail everything for the entire group.. on the one hand they say they're ok with the morality constraints then they keep complaining about it ? You can't have it both ways.
My inclination at this point is to boot both mikker0 and nydhog out of the campaign , quite honestly because if you're going to protest this much I see nothing but problems later on down the road. I'm also not certain I see lizzyopal's character working out either at this point (the complaint about "oh no not more stuff to read" on FG didn't inspire much confidence in me either nor does her lack of response to any of my PM's or threads I send her way..nydhog also mentioned to me that she "doesn't like writing" , which to me is a red flag... in FG everything you respond to is via text !) . This does however require that I consult with rogueserpent, malkav565, and darkalloy first as it is a decision that affects them too, which will probably happen during our next FG game session Tuesday Aug 10th, assuming I don't hear from them sooner than that (if you guys read this please feel free to jump in and let me know your thoughts you 3 ) . I am capable of running a campaign with just 3 players and I have a fourth one waiting in the wings who's been begging to join - I am sure given enough time I can find a 5th and a 6th player who are willing and able to embrace the "Good" character concept completely.
(sighs again)... I am now off to play with my 6 and 8 year olds , who need me.. without trying to sound arrogant mikker0, nydhog and lizzyopal my spare time is precious to me , your children are the MOST important thing in the world to you .. something you'll have a hard time understanding until you have kids of your own ... I love using my spare time to run an FG game, it's a real labor of love for me and running it with awesome players like darkalloy,malkav565 and rogueserpent make it truly rewarding.. please understand my frustration however mikker0, nydhog and lizzyopal when I say it is NOT fun having to spend the time I'm supposed to use making a fun FG game for players on arguing with you three instead
Dark alloy, malkav565 and rogueserpent please for god's sake don't think or get the idea I look down on anyone who doesn't have kids.. I'm just trying to say being a parent keeps you INCREDIBLY busy in ways you can't understand unless you're a parent yourself, and if you mess up it's not bye-bye career or oh well failed relationship, the result is damaged kids ! Basically I'm just trying to drive home the point that my spare time is really, really important to me and I can't spend it arguing with players constantly on the morality thing... basically trying to make sure I don't come across as too dictator-like here (I'm sure nydhog, mikker0 or lizzyopal will accuse me of that and that's fine, but I want to make sure darkalloy, malkav or rogueserpent don't feel that way |
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Post by rogueserpent on Aug 6, 2010 16:06:47 GMT -5
OOC Honestly, I dont care what we do with this slug. I do think letting him run back to his army and inform them he told us is worse, because he will. They will kill him. Bringing him to proper authorities and claiming he's nuts works for me. Someone shooting him in the head with a cross bow also works for me. If it makes anyone happy we can fry it up and eat it so as to not have wasted him. Its an evil creature. If a demon wakes me up in the middle of the night and tells me he is going to rape my mom, If I can kill it I will or die trying. God can deal with him and me when the time comes ( and I wouldnt hurt a fly and I am very God loving/fearing ).... Todies is now dead in my eyes. Dead to the crossbow..... I understand the DM doesnt want this stuff done here and now we have all learned that lesson. But this thread is over as far as Im concerned... Nice shot Lizzy, its out of my hands. If people are upset so be it, thats roleplaying and hats life. No reason to cry over spilled evil toad guts.
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Post by malkav565 on Aug 6, 2010 16:28:56 GMT -5
OOC: Well, one way or another, it seems this thread is done. I'll wait until the appropriate time to continue my character's reaction.
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Post by darkalloy on Aug 6, 2010 16:30:23 GMT -5
((Aye it kinda does.))
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.... and for the other players who respond to these posts too ...
.... you mentioned you were going to stay in the campaign - great