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Post by nydhog on Aug 6, 2010 16:33:52 GMT -5
(ooc: Dude I've agreed to follow your rules. I am just saying from a plot-following standpoint, I understand where Reika as a character would be apprehensive. I haven't argued with you. I looked at it as a discussion between two adults. I agreed that I will follow your rules while roleplaying that "Grr eolaer is frustrated that he can't kill them because of so and so or such and such" and I stand by that. I never said she doesn't like writing. I had said she had a hard time keeping up with the chat at the time because she's not used to text based. Lizzy has withdrawn herself at this point from the campaign because she feels you insulted her. I'll let her get into that if she chooses. That's between you two. I myself, as I said, want to and hope to be allowed to continue. Trust me man, I like your dm style now that everything is understood and on the table. I don't want to and never DID want to take away from your kids. If I did you have my sincere apologies. All i intend to do now is just play the game and roleplay. We discussed how eolaer will adapt and change later on and I can't wait to do it. Let me know what you think)
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Post by mikker0 on Aug 6, 2010 16:35:32 GMT -5
should i add -joke to my comments from now on >>
no your right im not going to agree with you andre because i disagree with you, but just because i disagree with you doesnt mean i wont suck it up so I can play D&D, im not a child. You want Heroic daredevil attempts in the face of evil to save the common folk so be it, as you said grumbling is my right unless u decide grumbling on the forum isnt in which case i will cease to do so. Kicking people before they mess up again after u warned them, is a bit much. If u find that im not roleplaying the way u want me to later down the line I could understand. However it is ur campaign and I have kicked many people out of mine for less. Im not going to harbor any feelings toward the situation whatever the outcome.
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Post by malkav565 on Aug 6, 2010 16:47:51 GMT -5
OOC: Here's my two cents as a GM.
There are very few things required to keep a party together through a campaign:
1) A common purpose
2) A shared understanding of proper behavior, aka a "party alignment".
A group of mature players can come to these two points with no problems.
Right now, you have a classic in character debate between good and neutral PCs. This has been happening since the Paladin was introduced in 1st ed 30+ years ago.
Let's put it to a simple vote and move on. Is the party alignment going to be good or neutral? Neutral characters can easily get along with "normal D&D good" characters who slaughter orcs because they are evil.
The outliers in the party seem to be the "exalted" characters, who follow "superman" morality. If Adam is the only PC with a problem executing an evil prisoner gang-style, I can easily make up another character with as much depth and less moral attitudes.
If half the party is neutral/D&D good and the others are trying to be "exalted cheese" good, then we need to pick one and replace the PCs that don't fit.
(of course, if the GM demands an "exalted good" party, now is the time to make that absolutely clear and the neutrals have to be replaced.)
We can do any of this out of character without any drama.
my 2 cents.
(ooc: I can see where Reika is coming from. She's not the heroic type. And remember: it's lawful good not lawful stupid. Morality is one thing, plunging into a war is another. Self preservation is not an evil act lol. If a group of innocents are going to suffer at the hands of a small group, I'd be hard pressed to find someone in this group who WOULDN'T immediately jump in. But a group of innocents risked by a full scale war.... I can understand the reservations)
I have explained this many, MANY times folks and I'm beginning to get a bit sick and tired of having to argue with players about this repeatedly in the forums. While I'm normally not the kind of DM who likes to dictate how a PC acts, if you are not comfortable with the morality requirements... and so far despite their protests otherwise I get the feeling nydhog and mikker0 are quite uncomfortable with it... this isn't the campaign for you. Sorry to be so blunt but there it is.
When I ran a paladin in another game he tried to trick a foe into drinking holy water and lost his paladin powers for one day.. I could have chosen to argue with the DM endlessly about it ... instead I took what the DM said to heart and made sure it didn't happen again. Folks I am here to RUN A CAMPAIGN, not to argue the same things over and over with players. At some point you have to stop arguing with the DM every time things don't go your way or it becomes impossible for the DM to do his job... so here I am asking the same question for the millionth time - here is what I need of the PC's.. can you live with it?
rogueserpent, darkalloy and malkav565 no issues with you at all, you're fantastic players.. and please don't think I am going to be this "draconian" with any of you three... the reason I'm coming across dictator-like and hard-edged with the 3 other players is I've been arguing with two of them (mikker0 and nydhog) non stop about the morality thing (not only here on the forums but via e-mails and PM"s too) and it's getting old... rather than wasting time on them that could instead be spent on the players that are mature enough to embrace the definition of good I need for this campaign and go with it (you 3 guys), I'd prefer to focus on the players for whom this campaign is a good fit.
Believe me this is not normal behavior on my part.. I like to have the PC's have free will but the morality requirements are necessary for the campaign to work... rogueserpent (nine the elf ranger), dark alloy (rin the bird man ) and malkav (adam the half devil monk) have been great about that , the others.. not so much...
Right now mikker0, nydhog and lizzyopal are ticking time bombs that will go off at some point later on in the campaign and derail everything for the entire group.. on the one hand they say they're ok with the morality constraints then they keep complaining about it ? You can't have it both ways.
My inclination at this point is to boot both mikker0 and nydhog out of the campaign , quite honestly because if you're going to protest this much I see nothing but problems later on down the road. I'm also not certain I see lizzyopal's character working out either at this point (the complaint about "oh no not more stuff to read" on FG didn't inspire much confidence in me either nor does her lack of response to any of my PM's or threads I send her way..nydhog also mentioned to me that she "doesn't like writing" , which to me is a red flag... in FG everything you respond to is via text !) . This does however require that I consult with rogueserpent, malkav565, and darkalloy first as it is a decision that affects them too, which will probably happen during our next FG game session Tuesday Aug 10th, assuming I don't hear from them sooner than that (if you guys read this please feel free to jump in and let me know your thoughts you 3 ) . I am capable of running a campaign with just 3 players and I have a fourth one waiting in the wings who's been begging to join - I am sure given enough time I can find a 5th and a 6th player who are willing and able to embrace the "Good" character concept completely.
(sighs again)... I am now off to play with my 6 and 8 year olds , who need me.. without trying to sound arrogant mikker0, nydhog and lizzyopal my spare time is precious to me , your children are the MOST important thing in the world to you .. something you'll have a hard time understanding until you have kids of your own ... I love using my spare time to run an FG game, it's a real labor of love for me and running it with awesome players like darkalloy,malkav565 and rogueserpent make it truly rewarding.. please understand my frustration however mikker0, nydhog and lizzyopal when I say it is NOT fun having to spend the time I'm supposed to use making a fun FG game for players on arguing with you three instead
Dark alloy, malkav565 and rogueserpent please for god's sake don't think or get the idea I look down on anyone who doesn't have kids.. I'm just trying to say being a parent keeps you INCREDIBLY busy in ways you can't understand unless you're a parent yourself, and if you mess up it's not bye-bye career or oh well failed relationship, the result is damaged kids ! Basically I'm just trying to drive home the point that my spare time is really, really important to me and I can't spend it arguing with players constantly on the morality thing... basically trying to make sure I don't come across as too dictator-like here (I'm sure nydhog, mikker0 or lizzyopal will accuse me of that and that's fine, but I want to make sure darkalloy, malkav or rogueserpent don't feel that way
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Post by mikker0 on Aug 6, 2010 16:52:06 GMT -5
Btw i dont know how to write in italics.
Anyway there is no drama and there is no need to vote, the neutrals have already agreed to play cheese. Im not opposed to playing that way and i am in no way upset with andre for enforcing what apparently was told to us in the beginning.
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 16:54:59 GMT -5
All right mikker0 and nydhog, I will admit that i have a lot invested in your PC's at this point and I'd rather not have to get rid of the (numerous) subplots I have set up for both Reika and Eolaer.... and if it seemed like I was jumping to conclusions because of the grumbling about the morality issues I apologize, you have to realize that many objections have been voiced to the morality requirements by you two, nydhog in particular. Mikker0 if you say you were joking as far as the "remind me to be captured by this group if go on a killing spree" comment .. I dunno, you seemed PRETTY unhappy about the morality requirements dude, no offense but it's hard for me to believe you genuinely meant that as a joke.. it came across more as a flippant, sarcastic remark and to be brutally honest I'm going to have a hard time seeing it as anything but...
Having said that .. if the two of you are , FOR REAL, 100 percent okay with the morality requirements (and yes they are a requirement in the campaign, though it's gracious of you to offer malkav  ) .. and if this is the LAST complaint (or anything that can be construed as a complaint) we're going to hear about it... then fine, you two can feel free to continue in the campaign if you like ... Nydhog I'm not sure I believe you either when you say it was merely a "discussion between two adults".. at least mikker0 admits he is unhappy with the morality issue and I think you really need to come out and admit it too (otherwise you wouldn't have so many objections... and there have been a LOT of objections on your part ... to the morality requirements.
Having said that if you two are REALLY okay with this, we'll give it one more chance... but if I hear any more grumbling about morality I'm going to have to pull the hated DM authoritarian stance and boot you. Yes it sounds like a dictatorship and I apologize for that but I've made my morality requirements pretty clear - it is the one thing I will not give ground on, and as far as I'm concerned grumbling about it is one step away from either 1) actually doing it or 2) dropping out of the campaign, both of which are outcomes I'd rather not have to deal with it. Please be aware in the future that I take any feedback on my campaign VERY seriously.
Lizzyopal.. at the risk of insulting your fiancee nydhog, I don't think FG is the game for her... she's ignored everything I've sent to her on the forums (not a single reply post) and her complaint over skype " oh no , MORE stuff to read?" does not inspire confidence. I will be filling the sixth player slot with a promising new recruit. Nydhog and mikker0 however have both shown themselves to be good RP'ers however , which is a good thing
To write in italics highlight your comments with the mouse then look in the "add tags" field above the "Message" textbox where you type stuff, hit the "I" button for italics to change to italics.. you can also use the "B" button for bold, "colors" drop down box to change the color of your text, et cet.
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Post by mikker0 on Aug 6, 2010 17:08:34 GMT -5
omg i have karma, not even andre has karma!
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 17:14:04 GMT -5
Not sure what the karma thing is about, but anyways...
Folks feel free to resume the interrogation of Toede thead... sounds like the one thing left to decide is what to do with him.. let him go, bring him to Solace with you, keep him with you as a prisoner ?
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Post by malkav565 on Aug 6, 2010 18:25:51 GMT -5
While the debate rages, Adam busies himself with cleanup. He takes Toede's distinctive armor and puts it one of the dead hobgoblins. He then sets fire to the dead hobgoblins.
He then gives Toede a plain quarterstaff.
"Fewmaster Toede is now dead. If you return to Solace, the townsfolk will enforce your death. If you return to Verminaard, he will enforce your death. I suggest you disappear into the forest. Take what you need to survive and stay out of sight."
Adam cuts any bonds on Toede and looks to the party.
"If any still have quarrel with Toede, then let it be a duel. A fair fight, with both opponents armed. There is no need for us to dishonor ourselves killing a prisoner."
If none faces Toede, he gives a furtive glance around the party, then scurries off.
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 19:20:12 GMT -5
(I appreciate your attempt to resolve this malkav and you're right it's probably what Toede would do but keep in mind NPC actions are subject to DM approval  .. I do totally appreciate your efforts though ) Toede quivers holding his quarterstaff timidly, waiting to see if anyone will voice an objection
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Post by rogueserpent on Aug 6, 2010 19:29:23 GMT -5
Nine himself looks to be conflicted with what should to be done with Toede but with such menacing things to contemplate on the horizon; he allows himself to be content with Adams decision and will never give it another thought.
" A deed done on the side of compassion and good can never be over looked. For it is not a single drop in the bucket but a shower on the iniquitous. Farewell Toede. "
Nine looks to the rest of the party and thinks to himself that all will be needed to have a chance in the upcoming epic. He prays to who ever may be listening that we can all survive and continue together.
" To Solace we go? We have a staff to secure my friends! "
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Post by rogueserpent on Aug 6, 2010 19:33:19 GMT -5
( OOC im going on a first date and to get drunk. I hope I dont come back to a G*D damn mess on this thread...lmao TGIF!!! )
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Post by Andre on Aug 6, 2010 19:44:52 GMT -5
( OOC im going on a first date and to get drunk. I hope I dont come back to a G*D damn mess on this thread...lmao TGIF!!! ) ( awesome dude let us know how it goes ! ) |
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Post by malkav565 on Aug 6, 2010 20:34:05 GMT -5
winks(I appreciate your attempt to resolve this malkav and you're right it's probably what Toede would do but keep in mind NPC actions are subject to DM approval .. I do totally appreciate your efforts though ) Toede quivers holding his quarterstaff timidly, waiting to see if anyone will voice an objection
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Post by nydhog on Aug 6, 2010 21:03:41 GMT -5
(nines cheating on eolaer! BASTARD! lol. I have said my peace on the morality thing and as I said I'll let it go. Let's just leave it here and be done with it lol)
(Also...... Is toede dead or not lol)
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Post by darkalloy on Aug 6, 2010 21:19:22 GMT -5
(He's alive and kicking so to speak.)
Rin stands up completely and moves over to Toede. "Well we need a new name for you now. Hmm... What was the ball less guys name?"
Rin stares at the burning bodies. "Anyway that should be your name."
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) .. and if this is the LAST complaint (or anything that can be construed as a complaint) we're going to hear about it... then fine, you two can feel free to continue in the campaign if you like ... Nydhog I'm not sure I believe you either when you say it was merely a "discussion between two adults".. at least mikker0 admits he is unhappy with the morality issue and I think you really need to come out and admit it too (otherwise you wouldn't have so many objections... and there have been a LOT of objections on your part ... to the morality requirements.
.. I do totally appreciate your efforts though